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Sunday, February 28, 2016

Lee vs. Grant (1988)

Lee vs. Grant (1988)

Ratings

7.04312 out of 10 with 218 ratings
Board Game Rank: 3206
War Game Rank: 481

Description

This game simulates the decisive 1864 spring campaign in Virginia during the American Civil War, nicknamed The Wilderness Campaign.

Players control the Union and Confederate armies which took part. The game is played in turns that represent five days. A unit's strength point represents approximately 2,500 men commanded by a leader. The map is a 1:200,000 representation of an area between Fredricksburg and Petersburg.

The game is split into two: Basic and Advanced. The basic game introduces players to the concepts of movement and unit activation. The advanced game adds sea movement, supply, and additional leader rules. Victory conditions depends on the scenario being played.

Lee vs. Grant is arguably the first game in the GCACW series by the same designer albeit from a different (though related) publisher and with a different map art style.

  • Designer: Joseph M. Balkoski
  • Artist: Rosaria Baldari, Ted Koller
  • Publisher: Victory Games (I)
  • Year Published: 1988
  • Number of Players: 2 - 2
  • Suggested Number of Players: 2
  • Manufacturer Suggested Ages: 12
  • Playing Time: 120
  • Suggested Ages: 12
  • Language Dependence: Moderate in-game text - needs crib sheet or paste ups
  • Honors: 1988 Charles S. Roberts Best Pre-World War II Board Game Nominee, 1988 Charles S. Roberts Best Pre-World War II Board Game Winner, 1988 Charles S. Roberts Best Wargaming Graphics Nominee, 1988 Charles S. Roberts Best Wargaming Graphics Winner
  • Subdomain: Wargames
  • Category: American Civil War, Wargame
  • Mechanic: Hex-and-Counter, Simulation
  • Alternate Names: Lee vs. Grant

Reviews

By
Bought 2nd hand in the BGG Marketplace (counters cliped). Same system as GCACW. Only played some small scenarios. Waiting to play the full campaign.

9 out of 10
By
Great game, complex yet simple! My type of war game!

7 out of 10
By
Good scale to this one

7.25 out of 10
By
rules in spanish

By
thrift shop find. Have yet to play it, but it does look interesting since it covers an understudied, difficult campaign.

By
***

By
VG

By
This is the precursor to the fabulous Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series; now somewhat obsoleted by Grant Takes Command. GTC is a little more complicated, but it's worth it, and GTC is part of a huge, 6-game series, so the extra investment is worthwhile.

7 out of 10
By
Lots of clever ideas here.

By
Winner of the 1988 Charles S. Roberts awards for Best Pre-World War II Boardgame (Charles S. Roberts Awards).

7 out of 10
By
There is a second generation of these games out there, but counter graphics are better in this one. Great Game. Symple sistem, play it and anjoy. There are a plethora of short and unbalanced scenarios (they are good to practice the system and last no more than 1 hour each) highly recommended in order to bring new people to the hobby. Thanks Joe.

8 out of 10
By
Only played Basic Game so far, but I'm really enjoying the maneuver and pinning options. Rolling for initiative is also a fun bit of tension. I'm sure the Advanced Game adds all of the really good stuff. Later that month - played it all and liked it but didn't finish campaign game. A bit repetitive for that length.

7 out of 10
By
Played thus game when it first came out. Good, solid in-depth Civil War game.

By
Just reacquired for Christmas from the Great Red Warrior

By
Precursor to AH Campaigns of the American Civil War series. Attractive but overly busy map never got me to take the plunge.

By
Purchased via eBay - March, 2008.

8.5 out of 10
By
The first step towards "Stonewall Jackson's Way" - almost every bit of that future game system was in there. And as it was one of the first (non-aerial) wargame I played a lot, I have a special fondness for it, I must confess.

By
Avalon Hill

By
Wargame

By
En el Club

By
Love the subject matter. Have never played the game, but haven't given up hope! Looks good, possibly simpler than most Victory Game offerings (most of which I like).

8 out of 10
By
Lots of fun. A precursor to the GCACW series, but it stands on its own nevertheless. Nicely captures the feel of ACW operational maneuver. And perhaps the best rules set I have ever read.

7 out of 10
By
Predecessor to GCACW series (which I mean to play some day). Bigger scale means you can play out Overland Campaign in a single session (unlike, say, Grant Takes Command). No hidden movement, but variable impulse and movement rates introduce enough uncertainty to force the players to think operationally and not spend their time over-optimizing SPs and MPs. I don't know if the Confederates have much of a chance if they don't make good on their shot at Union forces as they move through the Wilderness.

7 out of 10
By
This is the game that got the whole Great Campaigns of the Civil War series going. Scale here is 2 miles to the hex vs. 1 mile for GCACW, but other than that you will notice the same mechanics, albeit slightly rougher than the more elegant system of the later titles. This one covers much the same ground as Grant Takes Command from the GCACW series, but you can fit it in a smaller space. Great game.

7 out of 10
By
The activation in this game is similar to a chit pull system except you use dice to determine which side can activate. Using dice instead of chits means that you or your opponent can potentially move, move, move before the opponent gets to move. And unlike a chit pull, the player gets to determine who activates. I rated this highly because of the nice variety of scenarios at various difficulty/complexity levels. Some may not like it because you may only use a small portion of the map in some scenarios, even though you need the whole map for the campaign. Others may not like it because of the CRT. It appropriately demonstrates just how devastating it could be even to win a battle in the ACW in regards to casualties. I remember winning a lot of Pyrrhic victories where, if I had been playing the campaign instead of a scenario, there would have been no way to carry on successfully.

7 out of 10
By
Rating based on limited play of the basic game scenarios. I'm generally pleased with this system, although certain aspects feel a bit wrong. Soft ZOCs, combined with an extensive road network and super fast cavalry, means that cavalry can waltz circles around your "road blocks" and you never even get a chance to react. I have not tried the advanced game yet. I suspect that my rating will improve after playing the full campaign and/or some of the advanced scenarios. TRADED

6 out of 10
By
Good, innovative system. Few scenarios limit replay value

10 out of 10
By
Still delving in...but its looking like my favorite operational game system. I like the way each units status is tracked and impacted by its march, supply and attrition situation.

By
UP

By
Acquired via eBay (July 2015).

By
N

9 out of 10
By
véritable perle ludique, le système de balkovsky est le grand frère de la GCACW. Malgré tout je préfère celui-ci car plus "dépouillé" et au dessus d'un niveau. On ne gère pas ici des pouillemes de pions mais des corps entiers sans aller au détail de chaque garnison et autre petite unité. le tout dans un temps de jeu plus raisonnable qu'une campagne de GCACW. un jeu qui mérite le détour en tout cas

9 out of 10
By
Lee vs. Grant is a solid wargame that captures the vital elements of the Civil War at the operational level: maneuver, command, supplies, and inconclusive battles. Although overshadowed by GCACW, it is still worth the attention of any wargamer. I wish the system as presented here had been used to simulate Sherman's advance on Atlanta, the Red River Campaign, and a host of other operations. It will not happen though and I am reminded of wishes and fishes. At least I can still enjoy this underrated classic of wargaming.

6 out of 10
By
Ultimately couldn't get this game to the table enough. However, my limited experience with it was at least intriguing Given to Grognard Dave for Christmas 2016

By
Homemade version using color copies made from the game when I owned it with Map mounted on Foamboard. Very High Quality.

By
Can't rank; haven't played. . .yet

6.5 out of 10
By
Este juego es el antecesor a los juegos de la serie GCACW, su diseño más simple y su presentación hace que no aguante la comparación con los juegos de la mencionada serie. Sin embargo, presenta una muy buena jugabilidad en la medida que no es complejo; y, puede ser un buen acicate para buscar mas emociones y una mejor simulación en los titulos de GCACW.

7 out of 10
By
One of the better Victory efforts. Not the most gameable situation but Joe B. does not disappoint here. I think there's a connection to Avalon Hill's later Great Campaigns of the Civil War.

7 out of 10
By
The precursor to the GCACW series from Joe Balkoski et al. A fun one map game covering the overland campaign of 1864.

By
-Never played, but I want to -Gave it away, Xmas 2013

6 out of 10
By
The precursor to Balkoski's Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series, and a fine game in its own right.

By
Acquired 2011-07-27

6 out of 10
By
Condition: very good, box has slight wear

5 out of 10
By
As most Victory Games products, this is a good looking game with well written rules. I am simply not enough of a Civil War enthusiast to enjoy specific events from the war.

5 out of 10
By
Works better if you allow a side to pass with no penalty, but if both sides pass in a row, GT is over...

By
Victory Games 1988

By
Picked up on Ebay in 2012, but I have yet to play. It has been overshadowed by GCACW series and LOB series.

6 out of 10
By
Predecessor to the superior Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series. As such, this game rarely reaches the table.

By
Unplayed.

7 out of 10
By
This is a good game with great documentation. It is a little outdated with the appearance of a second generation of games based on the same system.

8.8 out of 10
By
Its VG, so its very solid game. You may have heard hype about the rule book being very good, well that is not true.. its better than that. Great game.

6 out of 10
By
Played only once. My opponent, a civil war buff who considers Grant the premier American general was greatly offended at the existence of the "General Lee bonus."

9 out of 10
By
Simple system with numerous 1-turn introductory scenarios focusing on various segments on the 1864 campaign initiated by Grant in an attempt to capture the rebels' capital Richmond. One standard size map with detailed geographical features. Joe Bolkoski's cycle driven game was first seeded here, which evolves later into better and delicate designs in Great Campaigns of American Civil War. An excellent designer's historical note is included in the rulebook. Overall, a highly recommended item and a must-have for all civil war buffs.

By
Punched

10 out of 10
By
own it.

By
No box

By
d1

7 out of 10
By
6 Scenarios and 3 Campaigns. Turn=5 Days.

7 out of 10
By
Classic predecessor of the famous GCACW system, at somewhat larger scale (which makes it more interesting for me). I really liked the way in which the leader influenced marching speed. Not sure about overall balance.

6 out of 10
By
A great system and low counter density on a single map. Unfortunately, by this time in the war, there's little striking power left in Lee's army. It's mostly react, react, and don't miss a step for the South or it gets ugly fast. Die roll differential for combat resolution can produce extreme results as well.

7 out of 10
By
Nice tctical game about the ACW. Wasmy first game to this topic and I liked it. Especially the activation system is very nice.

7.5 out of 10
By
Fun and easy to get into. Great rule presentation. Early version of the Great Campaigns series.

7 out of 10
By
Precursor to The GCACW series is a fine game in its own right.

By
$15

By
Have never played.

7 out of 10
By
very good game and good solo

8 out of 10
By
Fun game system.

7 out of 10
By
Arguably one of the best coverages of The Wilderness campaign . . .

7 out of 10
By
Con traduccion

9 out of 10
By
A father of GCACW series. I prefer this scale as it allows to play in a shorter time.

7.5 out of 10
By
An interesting game system that is very chess-like. A paucity of units on the board and therefore you better think carefully before you move. This is a thinking man's wargame. Best for the gamer who likes to ponder. Even the Advanced Game is not overly complex but all the different things you can do, and especially trying to figure out what your opponent will do, provides you with all the complexity you will likely need.

7 out of 10
By
Unique movement and organizational system. I'm surprised this game hasn't influenced others more than it has.

7 out of 10
By
Sold it in 1999. A good design by Joe Balkoski but now I prefer the Great Campaign Series.

6 out of 10
By
S

7 out of 10
By
A fine game, but not my kind of game. The history seems sound, but I didn't care for the little clusters of unit stacks on the big map. Nor did I like the futility of attacking even hastily entrenched positions. Very innovative and elegant overall, though. Probably one of the better wargames out there.

7.5 out of 10
By
Balkoski's early work on the Civil War system that Avalon Hill eventually expanded upon. Plays well solitaire.

6 out of 10
By
Used to own this but sold it. The GCACW games are based on this design. They're all about the same to me. A little too much complexity for what you get out of playing the game. I'm not averse to complexity, but it has to improve the experience of gameplay - this one doesn't do that for me.

By
VICTORY GAMES

7 out of 10
By
Gets my vote for some of the best rules presentation in wargaming. That aside, this system was the prove the basis of a successful operational ACW system that neatly represented leaders in terms of move bonuses. The one drawback is the subject matter: the Wilderness Campaign being rather like France 1914 in that a war of manoeuvre soon bogs down into trench warfare. The muddy map reinforces this impression.

7.5 out of 10
By
Bought this when it first came out,loved it. Many years later, after I was away from the era, I started in on the GCACW series. Great stuff!

By
Vendu (Pascal)

7 out of 10
By
started my interest in operational level games,gives a good intro to the "real feeling" of manoeuvering

7.5 out of 10
By
I prefer it to the GCACW series. Edit : not true anymore.

8 out of 10
By
Convinced me to get into the Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series. This is fine game the operational elements of a Civil war campaign. The focus is on maneuver command, supplies and the difficultly to force a battle. I almost prefer the scale here, but I also like the level of detail of GCACW. However, this is fine game in its own right.

8 out of 10
By
Great game. In the Victory Games tradition, that means high quality components and design, it is the precedent of GCACW series. Basic and advance rules, it is worth to play the overall campaign. It gives players plenty of strategic decisions at high level. Innovative combat and movement systems, it is smooth and fast playing. A great addition for any wargamer collector

8 out of 10
By
Great System

7.9 out of 10
By
Great game. Won every game I played. Now by wargaming buddy won't touch it. Even when you win, you lose. Ah, life!

By
own but not rated/fully played (which with the one-turn scenarios is rather embarrasing!)

8.7 out of 10
By
Still a fine game over 20 years later. The designers/developers changed the scale for the subsequent games based on this design, the GCACW series. As happened with the later Europa games, more and more was heaped onto the system. I'm not sure it's worth it-- the games aren't a more accurate model of the campaigns. I prefer the original.

By
I wish this system had been the one to stick rather metamorphosing into GCACW. Wonderful rules, playable scale, still detailed.

8 out of 10
By
Liked this system very much.

By
I have owned this game for a long long long time (perhaps since 1988) and never played.

5 out of 10
By
The precursor to the excellent GCACW series. I prefer the later rules over this game.

6 out of 10
By
I finished the Short 3-day scenario to get the rules down and now I'm half way through the Long Campaign game and I thought I would give my initial impressions. Lee vs Grant has an interesting system that I enjoy, but for some reason, more than any other game I have played, it gives me intense Analysis Paralysis. Not sure why but because of that it does not bode well for me to solo play often. I find combat to be somewhat frustrating and not fulfilling. Maybe its the nature of the attritional warfare being simulated or it could be the lack of unit diversity (or maybe I am doing something wrong). The system is really about out-maneuvering your opponent, but the options for the Union are severely restricted due to the fact that keeping your leaders in Primary Supply is quite difficult the further South they move (again, maybe I am just doing something wrong). My initial reaction is that the system would do better in another campaign. BGG Rating: 7 (it could drop to a 6 if the endgame doesnt get more interesing) UPDATE: Finished the Medium Scenario (Advanced Game, 6 turns) solo on VASSAL. That was enough for me. I just do not find this game exciting at all. I would be willing to play a FtF game, but, for me, its not engaging enough for solo play. I'll probably give the short scenarios a go on VASSAL sometime, but not anytime soon. Final BGG Rating: 6

7 out of 10
By
An operational look at Grant's 1864 campaign. The grandfather of the "Great Campaigns" series, it's got some of the same concepts, but a little simpler execution. Fun little game.

By
18.99

By
Never played

By
Good system, but after one game I only played GCACW.

7 out of 10
By
I love the strategic situation that you face, I am impressed by the map, and I think that almost everything about the game is well done and makes good sense. My only complaints are that defenders almost never suffer any kind of casualties, which makes the strength of the Confederacy multiply exponentially over the course of the game, thus making them the clear favorite to win.

By
Not yet played.
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